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Author Topic: Pourable transom information  (Read 14420 times)
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slowpoke
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« on: February 23, 2009, 09:41:04 AM »

One man's experience - with photos - using Seacast pourable transom repair:

http://www.fiberglassics.com/mfg/transom.htm

This site has been rediscovered by the original poster (who couldn't locate it a few weeks ago).
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oldenrude
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 01:15:19 PM »

Very interesting Slowpoke. Do you know if therte is an Aust. agent for this stuff?.

Michael.
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slowpoke
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 10:44:29 PM »

Michael, DingDong expressed interest for his BellBoy and I thought it might be wise to create a fresh topic on this subject, in case others may be interested. The product appears to be respected in the US and I know three people who are happy with it there.  I am not aware of a local supplier at this time, but I haven't searched.
I believe it is essentially polyester resin with chopped short glass fibres (for knitted strength) and other fillers, but retaining a pourable consistency. I believe any competent resin manufacturer could mix up a batch without difficulty. For effective use it requires laminated glassfibre panels to sandwich it.
Seacast and Nida-core are two US suppliers, and I think there are others.
I will be visiting a couple of local houses in the next 10 days and will enquire - and report here.
Ken
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oldenrude
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 08:05:16 AM »

Thanks for that Ken.
I have done a little bit of searching as well. It looks like unwaxed polyester resin with dimethylaniline as the promoter & benzoyl peroxide as the catalyst as oposed to the to the usual MEKP catalyst. I suppose this increases the working time? or something.
The filler looks like just chopped glass & a product called cabosil [glass beads?].
As you say a resin supplier should be able to mix up a batch.


Michael
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slowpoke
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 08:24:19 AM »

The three known US suppliers/brands are:
Seacast
Nida-Core
Arjay

Some years ago I used those microballoons on a couple of projects I was working on and I was amazed at the strength of the cured mixture. Easy to work, too.
Ken
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Chair
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 05:30:14 PM »

Love all this chat. So many good boats I know of went to their grave due to the transom problem being too big a job.
Chairman
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DumHed
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 11:19:15 AM »

I've seen this done manually with some bits of chopped strand mat stuffed into the transom through a hole / crack in the top then soaked with resin.
It worked pretty well.
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Ding Dong
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 08:52:13 PM »

Slowpoke has been very helpful in providing me additional information on this subject.

Based on my further enquiries as, 'a punter, trying to buy some of this stuff' has, unfortunately, not been too successful.

Seacast say,'Won't ship'

Nida-Core are hopeless. I don't think that they can be bothered!

Have tracked down Arjay.

Did you guy's know that Arajay supply their Pourable Transom Compound, to Nida-Core, for 'International sales' ?----- Unfortunately Nida-Core are not too good at the 'Sales' part!

Has anyone had any success in getting any of the above product type? from anyone?

It is looking more and more like a DumHed, mix up a concoction and give it a go solution is on the cards. Unless Arajay give me their formula for the PTC that I have asked for!!!!

Are there are any chemical engineer/mad, or sane! scientist's out there with any suggestions on 'Knocking up' an equivalent Pourable Transom solution?

Looks like Ken, Michael, have some knowledge/experience in this field. Give it some thought guys. Should be easy enough to try out any suggestion to see if it would work.

I really do not want to split the hull!!! In order to fix this. As Chairman say's, there must have been many an old boat gone to 'Davey Jones' or the tip! because of the need for this kind of repair. Maybe your old boat is in need?
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slowpoke
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 10:30:25 PM »

Yesterday I went to the resin shop and while there questioned about making up a pourable transom mix. He knew of the three US products and to his knowledge none were available in Oz.

He suggested "you could do it quite easily yourself". Use a mixture based on Epoxy resin, adding milled fibres (short glass strands) with cabosil and/or micro-ballons until the required consistency is reached - sorta' like porridge. 
He commented that there IS a difference between micro-spheres and micro-balloons: if used on a boat, micro-spheres are ok to be used above the waterline, micro-balloons below.
He stressed the importance of using epoxy, not polyester. A large volume of polyester will crack because of the heat generated, and compromise the strength. Epoxy does not suffer this problem and it has better adhesive properties.
My own experience would confirm this - sometimes I have mixed too much resin and left the unused in the mixing pot. When hardened , polyester always has cracks within. Relatively thin laminations of polyester disperse the heat and do not crack.

Ken.
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oldenrude
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 07:07:31 AM »

I wish I had studied Chemistry at school!.

Polyester resin sure generates a lot of heat as it cures.I think this is the reason that you must use the different promoter/ catalyst.

I will try to find out more about this.

Epoxy would work great but it is expensive.

Michael.
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slowpoke
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« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2009, 10:44:00 AM »

HAH-HA!
I wish I had studied chemistry, too.
Plus French, Mandarin, nuclear physics, psychology,  ... probably even spelling!

It is my understanding: that polyester will cure with physical heat over time. The chemical heat created by catalysts etc just does the job quicker.
Laying up a mould once the resin didn't go off, but after a couple of days in the sun and a heated environment at night it eventually cured.
Years ago I had a friendly industrial chemist, but I am unable to track him down now and his business is no longer registered. Please post what you discover, Michael.

Although epoxy is expensive, it may still be more desirable than splitting the hull.
I have not used casting resins - they can be very clear - and they must be cold curing - are they polyester base or something else? Must ask.
Ken
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Chair
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« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2009, 11:44:15 AM »

Just had this horrible thought of screwing it up. It's not something that you'd get a second poke at.
Chairman
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