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Author Topic: mercury 650ss 1967 4 cyl  (Read 1281 times)
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MERCMAN
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2019, 04:15:37 PM »

That is the incorrect sticker for a '67 model, if in fact that's what block you have??
That sticker belongs to a 73 model, which match your outer cowls. Grrr.
Where are you located? I think you have a Frankenmerc? I hate them.

As for number 4, I suspect spark, not fuel.
The bottom Carbie fuels both 3 & 4. Even a crook/bent reed would prevent 4 from receiving fuel.

Leave plug in 4 and place a grounded (spare) plug on number 4 lead. Start motor and check spark for strength.
Never start motor without pug in hole. Its starves piston, crank etc of oil, plus it will start a small fire at the back of the motor. Not a good look!
Marshmallows!
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antman
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« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 01:37:00 PM »

THanks Mercman
done that .....blue spark constant on plug lead 4
plug firing
sunny bayside  moorabbin
didnt get to water on weekend . will try asap
its not over till its over

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MERCMAN
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« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2019, 02:05:40 PM »

One of our members AaronJ had a collection of 4 (I recall) of short shaft 650's. Perhaps he may still own a goer which he is prepared to part with? Send him a PM.
If need be, I can email you his phone number.

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2019, 02:23:31 PM by MERCMAN » Logged

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antman
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2019, 03:20:20 PM »

thanks for that reply Mercman
been a week or two now .  sorry
ive done this and that   done some more research
yep its a frankenstien ....so its just guess work
it could have a 50 hp powerhead on it ..so putting plugs for a 65 say l17v may not be right as the 70s model runs a l77v plug
the timming for a 1969 650 is different from a 1972 model
mine seems to be made up of parts from 67 - 73 so its trickyim across the road from the guy i bought it off . he said it had rings and a new top where the plugs go in  done about 4-6 years ago buy someone out of town
hence why its got good compression
as i said ..it starts idols revs  but only to 2 2000 rpm underload.after injecting copious amounts of carbie cleaner down carb 2 my forth plug seems to be getting fuel oil .as is wetter than before and i used a different plug so i think we are on all 4 cyliners.
so this brings me to the prop . i have the original as a spare buts its stuffed ,has the numbers on it  mercury original 13and ? x 15 pitch
found tables with prop sizes and pitches for  65 hp from that era
i cant tell what ive got on as i cant find any id numbers ..
i should have a 13 .5 x 15 lets say .. different prop pitch and size for d``ifferent revs of the same engine 
it says that a 13 will rev to 4800-5200- but a 14 with some ?inch pitch ..which is designed to push a houseboat will rev to 2800 but have heaps of push
so maybe ive got a bloody houseboat prop and nothing is wrong with my unit!
so i stopped at a mercury parts shop and enquired about buy a correct prop  for $200-300 willing to give it a crack
and the guy says "reckon your wasting your money .youve got other issues and didnt even offer me a prop ...
so i have finally decided to give it away . i give in . i cant afford to buy anew 60  at 8 grand ,but i dont want to buy somebody elses second hand 20 year old piece of Huh that they want half the original price for out of gumtree or ebay ..ive learnt my lesson
just because it starts and runs doesnt mean its a good outboard
a friend of a friend ended up being a mercury outboard expert . he loaned me the flywheel remover and a compression tester small enough to get to no 4 plug
 comp is good all 4 around 120 psi  and even 
anyway stuck with a no go boat ..thinking of giving back to the guy i bought it off ($1000.00) and and telling him to keep his money and have his boat as im over it  luckely it was more time than money spent  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
lessons learnt 
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MERCMAN
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2019, 06:19:31 AM »

Not only could the prop be a factor, you may have a gearbox with the incorrect ratio based on what ever powerhead you have.
Sent us a pic of the gearbox plus the midsection and shockers (if any). These pics will assist me in figuring out the possibilities.

This is a good quiz!

MERCMAN.
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austral
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« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 06:54:12 AM »

Are you 100% sure you are getting full throttle ? The fact its been swapped and changed, it may not be adjusted right.
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« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2019, 12:05:56 PM »

made a tank


* tank.jpg (2575.02 KB, 2592x1944 - viewed 32 times.)
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« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2019, 12:44:02 PM »

Hi . great thinking and good theory s
but being the fact that i have video of this engine wot and up on a plane ,3 minutes before it stopped
it coughed a bit ran a bit and coughed and died .  which we have found out to be the flywheel spinning and shearing the key. no start again
and i dont think it sheared the key due to a sudden lock up stop !i died slowly so i asume it was due to incorrect torque setting on flywheel nut .not tight enough
and the guy i bought it off ran it in this configuration before me . with this prop ...he did admit that i didnt go as hrd as it did after i tinkered and lubed the dizzy magnito thing ( 1 st post )
so ill push reset ( wish there was one ).and go back to the start .chapter 1 page 1 and with a fresh head
 check voltages . sparks . can now check timing in gear at idle  ( im suspecting timing still  rememering 2 mechanics have both suspected timimg )
i l do a link and sink  checking that
mercaman thanks for your input ..
im working on a 4-6 deg atdc idle  38deg ithink wot
but other ignition setting for like wise engines seem to be all btdc?
the plugs firing before it reached tdc  understanding it advances as the revs increase to pre anticipate the the next time to fire
but still weird some are before .and a few are after ..or am i wrong and my timng settings are wrong
and sorry mercman there is no showcase or mercedes benz after this quiz if you win , but i will sell you my 1969 280s ( 2 50 year old headaches that both start with m)

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austral
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2019, 07:49:20 PM »

Water leaking around spark plugs and shorting them out ?
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MERCMAN
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2019, 09:06:51 AM »

The loom in your most recent picture doesn't look real flash. It shouldn't look limp like that (near the support bracket).
Take the electrical tape off and look for perished/damaged insulation of the wires within the loom.
Can you borrow another control box and loom assembly from someone? (I had spare control boxes up until this time last year.) Try speaking to Guy at the Outboard Workshop - Carrum Downs. I sold most of my collection to him.


This is an obvious one... is the vent on the fuel tank open, since attending to all the other suspects?

The other thing I see in the pic.. That's not a 1967 outer. This leads me to think the position of timing mark (decal) is probably not matched to your powerhead. This needs further investigation, only if there is nothing wrong with the wiring within the loom. 

MERCMAN.
 
 
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Mark S
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« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2019, 12:23:09 PM »

I've read everything and you've gone around in one big circle. Need to start from basics again. Mercman's point about mis-matches needs to be kept in mind, it may or may not be contributing to the problem.

Have you checked number one cylinder piston top dead centre to see if it matches the TDC on the label before checking ignition timing? Timing should be checked at max advance which is 32 degrees for a 1967 model. Can be checked at any revs or static.

Don't let a clean spark plug on the bottom cylinder mislead you either, some in-line Mercury's do that.

If you had a houseboat prop on it, it would be revving its head off and getting no-where, not loading up.

Obviously you are using a good brand of fuel like BP and a quality 2 stroke oil like Mercury premium plus or Evinrude XD30.

I would think a 15 pitch prop is not too big, your gearbox should be a 2.1-1 ratio.

When under full load, have you had anyone squirt some fuel in to the carburetors to check for fuel starvation?

Can you post a photo of the spark plugs, so Mercman and I can see them.

Mark S.
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antman
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« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2019, 07:19:55 PM »

thanks -Austral,Mercman and thanks Mark
Water in the plugs would mean .. in the water at dock reving to 3-4000rpm   waterpump pumping hard would maybe  give me ,missing or lumpy rpm ..not getting that . it revs clean to 4800 under no load ..( i may be wrong )
in the first week-  i opened a can of worms by opening controller  , total re wire as it was all stuffed . water had got in through choke button and all the wire had perished and corroded . all redone  .tested from controller to conections inside the engine therefor testing the loom and black external plug and internal wiring loom for continuity and voltage with a multi meter  .but i will check that loom end again 
vent checked...... i recon every time i  try it ( isnt that the first sin ?)
timing mark lines up and piston top dead  center .. visited that at the time of the flywheel re install and  yep ill re check that
Marks correct.the houseboat prop would still rev ..i didnt read some pdf i found correctly. Information overload
no havent squirted fuel in under load ... and im  using good fuel and oil ..had 91octane  and tried 95 .( which is better?)
i have not tested in the water for 3 weeks. so i should try it again  before i pull it all apart
i have missed something. ive just got to find it


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« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2019, 02:20:22 PM »

sunday morning .bays flat .slipped it in. idle , Grin out trim it in.....go ! up .up up . slowley revs increase .and we are now ....plaining   Grin
check tacho , 2800 2900 3000 3100..wot played around with trim and had me and mate jumping around up front trying to increse rpm by weight distribution
but moving and plaining    But it was fun ! finally after 1 year i got it to move along
aadd some chop and swell and its probably back to useless again! but is is a positive .(Frankenstien phsyco engine ...gives you a little bit of improvement just to keep you hooked )all it had to do was rev to over 4000 rpm under load !and i would have spent  money  replacing any part with any new parts i could find
on the web .slowley week by week .
Im thinking now ,, becuase i fixed it this far ..of finding another mechanic  drop it off and say nothing of my past history
" i was out last sunday mate and its was not reving over 3000 rpm ..strange hey " and leave it with him  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy   Roll Eyes
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antman
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« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2019, 12:44:03 PM »

 used it a few times .
dreaming of a new outboard 4 stroke @ 9100.00 just goto come up with the cash
 also decided to get new stator . under flywheel ,new internal loom and new leads and boots cost around $600 all cdi
if it doesnt fix it ill replace the switch box with cdi replacement around $300 .
timings good link and sink goodstill reving max at 3100 and plaining, so im chasing 2000 rpm .( have voltage fluctuation up and down )
have two rectifiers and both ok so ?
gets me out and back at the moment so im content , at least i have caught a fish .
time has come to start throwing some dollars at it ( parts not  mechanics )
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MERCMAN
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« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2019, 08:48:06 AM »

Don't wast your time and money on a gutless 4 stroke.

In the particular hp range you're are looking at, you can't go wrong with an Etec. That is honest advice coming from a Mercury fanatic of 57 years.

An Etec's first service is due at 300 hours. Try that with any 4 banger and see what happens!

MERCMAN.
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