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Vintage Australian Outboard Runabouts => Restoration Projects: Underway, Prospects, also Help and Advice => Topic started by: AaronJ on January 07, 2011, 04:47:06 PM



Title: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 07, 2011, 04:47:06 PM
Ok Team, here they are.

They are not sequentially numbered, but are only 15 units apart (A1415707 and A1415722).

They are identical in every aspect accept one. The gearbox casing..... One has the water pickups in the usual place on the sides of the gearbox. The other has the pickup in the cathode (A1415707), which I have never seen before? The one with the cathode pickups has no lower oil drain (i.e the one that is on the front left of most other gearboxes form that period. Strange?

I have not fiddled yet and the stand is to flimsy to apply any pressure, but neither will tilt and one will not swivel. However, both have prop/engine rotation and both spin nicely when the cord is pulled. So that's better than my 67 650ss which is stuck as this stage.

Here you go:

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSalsMLhenI/AAAAAAAAAKc/btUJIYo54zA/s1600/61s_1.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSalmYYV0BI/AAAAAAAAAKU/lRW2nD3YNS0/s1600/61s_2.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSalhAstmWI/AAAAAAAAAKM/Ybr0bzFAfNk/s1600/61s_3.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSala_gX3RI/AAAAAAAAAKE/ujOHuI7fPBE/s1600/61s_4.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSalUhebYFI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/sez5rk56wf8/s1600/5.jpg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_agL-NTLiiAo/TSalNhN0p_I/AAAAAAAAAJ0/UrkEn2b4D9c/s1600/61s_6.jpg)

Other than that they look very clean but have obviously been sitting for many years.

The lady I bought it from said they belonged to her partner's father (who had them stored and had owned them since new). She reckons up to 40 years, but they have definitely been well used and most screws and bolt heads took to have been played with at some stage. But there are loads of really badly rusted nuts, bolts and other things and salt water tell-tails such as sand throughout.

Now I just need to decide, do I work on one of these or keep to the first plan of the 67 650ss for Capricious. Fun, fun. fun....

Cheers, Aaron.




Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: andrewallan on January 07, 2011, 05:33:52 PM
They are certainly very aesthetic, aren't they?

Judging by how much time you've been spending on your boat, you must have a very understanding partner!

Just spent the arvo churning around in a brisk northerly  with the trusty old Hartley/starflite dragging the kids on a donut. The sound of these old motors is so much better than the new 4 strokes!

Keep up the piccies- they are great.

A


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Chair on January 07, 2011, 07:53:36 PM
Still they look amazin


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on January 07, 2011, 08:34:26 PM
You should see how GREEN I am right now.

Great score mate. 8) 8) 8) 8)

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 08, 2011, 12:41:57 PM
Andrew, I spend less time that it may seem, so keep my partner happy enough. I think she actually likes that she gets a break from me when I head to the workshop ;-)

Managed to free up both the gear selector and throttle (all heavily bolt rusted at the main pivot points, and with pretty dried up grease on others) and both are working with gear selection. I reckon there's and outside chance these might even fire up (will get advise from those more Merc-in-the-know before I try that one).

Aaron.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 09, 2011, 07:05:37 AM
And... they have been a matching pair earlier in their life. I found "port" and "star b" on the inside of each wrap-around cowl and identical Parkview Marine decals on the top cowl (see pics). So at some point they were serviced together and together on the back of something! Trust me to find stumble across another mystery ;-)


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: bote-bote on January 09, 2011, 09:15:40 AM
Wow! If I owned those I'd have to come up with a system that enabled me to store them in the lounge room  (one each side of the fire place) ... Then I'd build a roof track so that I could quickly slide them out thru the front window and drop them  them on a hull similar to Mercman's profile shot- ready for when ever I felt the need for a short blast!...this is the kind of thing you think about when you only have a hull half sanded... Sensational!
Wayne ;D


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 09, 2011, 12:01:45 PM
Now you're talking Wayne (a Powercat that is).

Not sure my partner (as tolerant and entertaining of my hobbies and obsessions as she is) would go for a pair of Mercs in the lounge ;-)


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on January 10, 2011, 07:34:41 PM
And... they have been a matching pair earlier in their life. I found "port" and "star b" on the inside of each wrap-around cowl and identical Parkview Marine decals on the top cowl (see pics). So at some point they were serviced together and together on the back of something! Trust me to find stumble across another mystery ;-)

The moment I set eyes on those beauties I felt they had spet their life together.
The chances of finding two seperate motors of that vintage and in basically the same condition is next to nil, otherwise.
Maybe it could happen in the States but not out here, as the tarrif on outboards had only been lifted for one year when those were pair born (woops, I mean built).

Iv'e certainly seen the two types of water pick ups but not on that model. Bootlegger has a white Merc with the pick ups in the trim tab as well (I think it's a 700). I'll have to take a snap of his entire motor and try and then try and put the real story together for all of us. Did you get the controls? if not, don't despair. When they were first on ebay not only did Slowpoke tell me about the motors,  I received two emails from Merc geeks I regularly communicate with in the USA as well. I feel quite sure we can dig up controls for them as well.

Come to think of it, Chair and I know a fellow in Gelong who may even have controls??

MERCMAN.





Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 10, 2011, 08:15:34 PM
Nope... no controls and any leads are greatly appreciated. Needless I'll be continuing my scanning of the Ebay and other sources as well.

Also need to track down a suitable hull some time between now and completing Capricious.

I did some searching on the web for this year 700 and I would say the results were about 50:50 for the two types of water pickup on 61's. There are other subtle differences in the gearbox casings too. Sing out if you want me to take photos showing them.

Aaron.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 11, 2011, 07:05:19 AM
Well... seek and yee shall find...

These motors were on a S.A. Coast Guard Auxiliary cruiser "Akoonah" which did a cruise of the Murray River in 1963.

"Akroonah a 20 foot Mariner cabin cruiser, plywood construction, with twin 70 H.P. Mercury engines and extended stern, also giving a total length of 23 feet. Cost of Akroonah" - £3,000".

All the fascinating info (including heaps of reports on the Mercs) is here: http://svc125.wic018v.server-web.com/archives/albury/index.html

Any of you guys that have been in boating since back then remember or know anything about this?

To add to this I have been advised the boat is currently "a pile of timber in a Balwyn backyard". I am currently waiting to hear if that is literally or figuratively!

Aaron.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 11, 2011, 07:17:15 AM
Correction... Vic Coast Guard:

""Operation Albury", the River Murray Trip, a cruise from Talangatta to Goolwa was undertaken by three twenty foot cruisers, 'Akroonah', 'Crusdaer' and FV59 belonging to members from Victorian Coast Guard Auxiliary, Commodore Ted Madden, and Rear Commodore Weston-Smith who set out from Albury in August 1963."

They were then joined by S.A. baots.

Not sure if one of these two is Akahoona:

(http://svc125.wic018v.server-web.com/archives/images/gideon_small.jpg)


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on January 13, 2011, 02:08:43 PM
This now confirms my earlier theory.
Just after I had the hunch that they were twins at an early age, I started pondering on the apparent gear case differences. The gear case with the water pickups in the trim tab is the original gear case. You'll also note that it has many more scars that the other gear case with the water pick ups in the side.  The side water pick ups came out in a later model.
I propose: The motor with the later model gear case had suffered major damage toward the end of the Murray River run and the entire gear case had to be repalced and it was replaced with a new gear case, current at that time.

Your two motors were not exactly "brand new" when the Murray run was completed. This is clearly evident by the age of the motor (1963) in the photo in the above post. 

MERCMAN.



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 13, 2011, 03:49:17 PM
All true on the age thing. In addition I have not yet been able to work out the age of Akoonah either, but may have a lead on a photo of it on Lake Hume at the start of the Murray Trip (the above is Gideon and the other S.A. boat who’s' name escapes me).

No mention of a terminal gearbox issues in the captain’s log, so maybe it happened before or after the trip. There is however plenty of log entries talking about snags and floating objects causing plenty of prop issues and damage.  Either way I think your proposal is the most likely explanantion and maybe the damage was not found until after the trip.

It seems (from the owner's son) Akoonah was dry docked in a backyard in around 1965 and may have never moved again. The unfortunate thing.... it is confirmed she was a 'literal' pile of timber in that same back yard in recent times and is now officially gone for good with the sale of that house. Very sad.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: andrewallan on January 13, 2011, 04:03:43 PM
Amazed that you managed to find a link between your motors and that trip!

Also interested at the similarity of Akoonah to a Hartley . Can't get my head around "dry-docking" a boat of that caliber/expense for long enough to let it become a pile of timber! Wouldn't you be tempted to use it at some time???

Anyway, your Merc already look fantastic . Bad luck they won't look any good on Capricious!

A


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on January 13, 2011, 05:34:10 PM
Andrew, The seller found the link for me, but only because I asked. They are now also amazed at the history they knew little of as their father talked little of his earlier exploits.

I think one would look great on Capricious, but I think you are being sarcastic!?

They will wait their turn... I want the 'twins' to stay together and Capricious has its more than ample 1967 Merc 650SS first in line.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: kim bull on January 14, 2011, 08:44:42 PM
I must say that pair of engines would look very nice on my 15ft powercat ;D ;D


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 29, 2011, 11:13:17 AM
A question.

As the motors are free and gear select functioning, I thought I'd chuck them in neutral and put some power to the starters to see if they would turn.

I ran jumpers (from the running car) to the pos and neg terminals at the side of the starter.

With both motors the starters spun freely, but neither starter gear lifted up to engage with the engine flywheel.

Is this due to how I jumped them, or could it be the starters need some freeing up (or are cactus)?

Aaron.



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on April 29, 2011, 12:07:32 PM
I have two questions Aaron..
Are your Jumper Leads at least 100amp?
Have you tried to twist and lift the starter cog by hand?
The shaft may have surface rust.

MERCMAN.



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 29, 2011, 12:53:46 PM
Leads, no idea. Just your basic type.
Lifting no, have not pulled the top cowl off yet, which is needed to access the top of the motor.

Will leave it for another day rather than make yet more mess in the workshop. Too many things on the go at once now!!!


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on September 10, 2011, 03:05:05 PM
Check this workmanship out http://newsblogg.viztech.se/2011/04/13/kiekhaefer-mercury-merc-1000-1962/

Took me a bit to work out they were not real.

The designer has some crazy boats designs that are modern, but with classic styling.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on September 12, 2011, 01:21:23 PM
They had me fooled for a moment too.
How clever are they?? 8) Good find Aaron.
Sadly, the Merc 1000 was never built in Cloud White! They look real good, never the less. I wonder why they were created with left hand S/S props? Funny that!
A little more perfection on some minor details (Screws, nuts, bolts, water pick ups, thumb screws etc, etc) and you could be fooled in to thinking they are real.

Did you see all the stuff here as well? http://www.viztech.se/
A lot of this is real, of course!,

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on October 22, 2011, 03:22:35 PM
Having test fired one of 1964 650SS twins (http://board.net.au/yabbse/index.php?topic=2144.0) I thought I'd have another go at the 700's.

I can't wire them the same as the 650 as they have a different wiring harnes plug and the forward control cables won't work.

So I tried, what I think is, a simlar wiring setup (direct, bypassing the loom plug)

1) battery - to - on starter
2) battery + to + on starter
3) second cable from battery + to touch + on starter solenoid.

With this configuration the starter spins, but does not lift up and engage the motor.

I think I am jumping it right, but could it be that my very cheep jumper leads are just not allowing enough amps from the battery?

Note: When I started the 650SS I did not use my jumpers, but used the proper forward control +/- cables which are significantly larger gauge wire than my jumpers.

Help me our chaps as I am desperate to see if these 700s will fire!!!

Cheers,



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on October 23, 2011, 07:59:26 AM
From what I understand from your post Aaron, you don't have a Control Box connected at all??
 
Sure, you are getting "Crank" but the way I see it, no ignition without a Control Box and key, with me?

Run a (+) wire form the battery to each of the positives of the Coils. This will give you ignition. You'll have to remove this wire to stop her.
Also, don't leave this (+) wire connected longer than 30 seconds without the motor cranking or running. There is a possibility you could cook a Coil.

MERCMAN.








Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on October 23, 2011, 09:07:55 AM
Hey Guy,

Yes, I have no control box/cables for these. Remember they have the funny loom plug configuration which does not match to any of the 4 control/cable sets  8) I have.

And No I am getting crank.  The starter motors spinning in place, but not lifting up and engaging with the fly wheel.  Its like there just isn't enough power getting to it.  On the 1964's I'm getting awesome crank with the same 600CCA battery.

This morning I ditched the cheapy 100Amp jumpers for 400Amp jumpers. Same result.

Like I said, theoretically I am wiring it the same as the 64's (and they crank just fine), but just doing it by bypassing the use of a forward control cable.

I'm not 100% sure what you are suggesting re wiring (need a visual), so when I get done with my landscaping chores, I'll post a photo of how I'm wiring it.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: gusto on October 23, 2011, 09:36:36 AM
Hi Aaron
Sometimes the solinoid can become sticky over time not being used. Try just powering the solinoid up and you should at least hear it trying to engage(-ve to motor +ve to the solinoid only). If you can hear it try and pry it out if you can or a gentle tap with a hammer on the outside of starter to free it out.

THe wiring mercman is talking about is to power the coils up like having the ignition on. You will have to do this once u get the starter working in order for the engine to have spark and start.
Chris


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on October 23, 2011, 08:51:53 PM
Chris,
Had a look at the starters (in place) with my bro-in-law tonight. The little gear on top of the start, certainly does freely lift when you reach up and turn it. But it does seem to stop short of reaching the fly wheel.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: gusto on October 23, 2011, 09:17:34 PM
That's a bit wired obviusly it is ment to go all the way up and at one time it would have for it to work. You may have to pull the starter out and work out what's going on.
Chris


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 05, 2012, 07:56:08 PM
Amazingly, I just had an email come in from the lady I got the twins off (daughter in-law of the original owner).

She found a few images of "Aroonah" (yes, another iteration of the name).

She has issues with scanning them, they are blurry, only partly scanned and I have asked if she could have another go... but for now I give you...

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YUtzamfA1aA/T1SMGayhYMI/AAAAAAAAAdw/y9BP_GzxF9M/s1600/Aroonah_01.jpg) (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DKYo26LWGzw/T1SMGCB-x2I/AAAAAAAAAdk/eNX1_oucA0Q/s1600/Aroonah_02.jpg) (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-MRP_F_hLZyI/T1SMGHJ7r_I/AAAAAAAAAdc/OyjuIEJHcXk/s1600/Aroonah_03.jpg)

How damn cool it that!? I finally get to see the boat, and look how shiny the twins were back then!!!

Anyone able to ID her model? I know she's a Mariner cabin cruiser and 20ft with extended stern to 23ft.

Aaron


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 06, 2012, 01:19:39 PM
Real Cool 8) 8)..
The Engineer appears to be about to give the Port motor a Service ;D.
My 850 was sold by a Merc Dealer in Albury. I wonder if it's the same one?
From what I can make out so far, the vessel looks alot like a Chris Craft to me. It will be interesting to see better Scans, as you say Arron.
 
MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 06, 2012, 03:25:03 PM
Yes, and a service while underway at that!
Will have to check back over the captains log  from the Murray Rvr trip as I am sure it say it's a Mariner and the captain I assume was the owner and therefore knew what he had.
Hopefully those better images are forthcoming ASAP.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 06, 2012, 06:27:27 PM
Maybe it's a copy of a Chris Craft design and the obscure builder just called it a Mariner. ???
Definitely not to be associated in any way with the Mariner craft of the 80's and onward. ;D

I'm chasing down some pics of a very similar vessel I used to go out in, back in 1962/3/4/5. She was powered by twin 1961 700 Dockbusters.
That's where my love of Mercs was first spawned. Maybe these pics may reveal something else?

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 21, 2012, 07:46:57 PM
In the right thread this time...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FO49GHBjhCQ/T2cJTjrCGDI/AAAAAAAAAfk/nCI5wh_H9Jk/s1600/2sml.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-p1hq2jIlNUs/T2cJVjxVv2I/AAAAAAAAAfs/7JpD7sftMI0/s1600/3sml.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hUrIs26eJyE/T2cJQatThtI/AAAAAAAAAfc/mcDDamC2Pss/s1600/1Sml.jpg)


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 22, 2012, 06:52:48 AM
Now there is something I didn't pick up on previously.
The name Mariner is behind the word Albury on the banner seen in picture two.

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 22, 2012, 03:55:15 PM
Yes, look at that!

The mystery deepens.  'Mariner' as in whom I wonder (remembering this is late 1963)?

I have also found out that the National Film & Sound Archive has a documentary on the trip "Akroonah" and the other boats took: http://colsearch.nfsa.gov.au/nfsa/search/display/display.w3p;adv=;group=;groupequals=;holdingType=;page=0;parentid=;query=operation%20albury;querytype=;rec=3;resCount=10

Will see if it can be accessed when I get a chance.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 23, 2012, 08:48:01 AM
On Wednesday, I sent most of the known info' to the former Marketing Director of Marine Power Australia (Mercury Marine) to see what light he can shed on this subject. He is a little older than me, perhaps he can recall the event?

Wouldn't it be great if we can have that Doco' placed on to youtube or similar!

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 23, 2012, 09:29:33 PM
Good one Guy. We'll see if that digs up anything more.

The NFSA advised they can convert the 16mm film (not viewable) to something I could 'view', it won't cost me, but may take a few months. However, I'm still waiting so see what kind of access they allow me as before they'd even go down this path I had to tell them the reason and background to why I wanted to view it.

We'll see.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: oldenrude on March 23, 2012, 11:18:33 PM
Hi Aaron,
I have a boat test of a Mariner from 1963. Its called a Master 20 foot cruiser and it's built by Mariner Craft , 66 Crown st Richmond. Looks indentical to the one in your picture.
Doesn't seem to be related to Bill Barry-Cotters Mariner cruisers which were built in Sydney from 1966. I will try to scan a copy of the test if you are interested.

Michael.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 24, 2012, 12:23:21 PM
Absolutely interested Michael. Thanks.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 27, 2012, 07:29:46 AM
I'm sure we'll turn more info' up sooner or later.
The story (as we know it so far) is now with the GM & the current Marketing Director of Mercury Australia. Lets hope these guys can discover a little more and share it with us.

I'm also very excited to see the Boat Test that Michael has found too.

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Chair on March 28, 2012, 08:34:22 AM
Re " the reason and background to why I wanted to view it".
Aaron, tell them its for this board and for the interest in preserving our heritage. Thats what this board is all about. If they have this stuff in stock, we are their outlet. it's no good locked away. Let us know how you go. I do know they are understaffed. If you want me to draft a letter, let me know. I have had dealings with them in the past and it's a matter of reaching the right person.

David



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: oldenrude on March 28, 2012, 07:13:52 PM
first page


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 28, 2012, 07:37:50 PM
Oh my Michael!

That's no doubt what Akroonah was ... paint highlights, window frame, timber hand rails, bow chocks, nav lights.... I can't spot a difference other than a slight difference with the paint around the side cabin windows.

Are you able to scan the rest of the test write-up?

Anyone know anything about this manufacturer?
Wonder if there are old plans around somewhere?
Wonder if the 3ft extension (I'm assuming some kind of pod) was done in factory? You can see in the image with the captain he's standing on the extension while underway and there looks like some kind of structure behind the twins.

In Michael's scan it looks to have a pair of 4's not 6's like Akroonah, so I wonder if that's the reason for the extension (bigger motors)?

The more info there is the more questions it bring up...


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on March 28, 2012, 08:35:16 PM
Hi AJ.
Re the motors. That's the first thing I picked.
Re the lenght extension. I don't feel it would have been a pod type of thing. I reckon the planing surface may have been extended by non adjustable timber trim tabs. They were used in that era to correct porpoising. Just a thought mate...

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on March 28, 2012, 08:39:35 PM
Yes, its almost like they are boxed in with that arch'like opening behind.

3ft trim tabs... cool ;-)


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: oldenrude on March 28, 2012, 09:04:51 PM
second page


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: oldenrude on March 28, 2012, 09:10:02 PM
third page


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 18, 2012, 12:24:04 PM
Great work. Thanks so much for posting those images.

I just heard back from the National Film Archive. Permission has been granted to have the doco transferred from film to video for me to come in an view. I'm now inquiring as to if and how I can get a copy I can then share with you guys and the family of Akronah's owner.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 18, 2012, 01:26:39 PM
Ok, another update.

The NFSA has given me the contact details of the person that holds the copyright over the doco. With their permission I can obtain a copy for my own use. Fingers crossed.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 01, 2012, 09:54:28 PM
Update:

The copyright owner passed away last year, but his widow has given approval for me to get a copy for personal use (i.e. I can share with our boating community, but not broadcast it in any other manner).

The film is with their video lab being converted. Should be within the month.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on June 08, 2012, 03:45:10 PM
Update:

The DVD is in the mail and I'll have it early next week!


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on June 13, 2012, 07:52:06 AM
Gang I got the documentary and its great.

However, my biggest disappointment is that when it was shot in 1963, they did not record actual sound. So every time one of the boats is in the shot there is this annoying little outboard motor sound effect that is NOT the twins. Gets really annoying!

Anyhow, I'm not sure how best to try and share it with you guys. I have to look into whether I can make copies. If not and you any of you are keen, we could do a pass the parcel via registered mail so long as it comes back around to me at some stage. Just an idea. Maybe I can get it on YouTube?

I grabbed a couple of interesting shots off the TV screen. The first is just a good shot of the Akoonah and the second boat, Crusader, in the background and the second is the best one I could get showing the weird stern end of the boat with inboard/outboards.

Another surprise was just how shallow and flat their hulls were at the stern. The narrator makes mention of bot hulls having been specifically build as to have a shallow draft for skimming over obstacles.



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on June 14, 2012, 09:38:26 AM
That's exciting new Aaron.
A shame about the lack of sound though. Oh well..... Great shots off the TV. I can't wait to sit and watch the whole thing with you.
Are you back at work yet? I just tried to call you.

MERCMAN.



Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on June 14, 2012, 11:33:20 AM
Hey Guy,
Just tried you too.
I went back on Tuesday (shoulder is 100%) but had a bit of a sniffle and a few aches'n'pains. In the end I over did my first day back (gym, long day, worked back late, etc) and pulled up really crook. I was probably heading this way anyhow, but have the flu (no not the man-flu), so am back off work and holed up at home YET AGAIN! Really over it.
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on September 05, 2014, 03:14:16 PM
Gang,

I just wanted to rehash this one as I have a tiny bit more info that MIGHT help someone out there help me.

As we know the boat was originally a 20ft Master built by Mariner Craft in Richmond (Melb) during or before 1963.  We also know she was extended, at the transom, by 3ft for the Murray River trip.

I was just doing a little more Googling (I mean procrastinating from working) and found an article on the Yachting Australia site (from a 1976 newsletter) that mentions Master Craft launching three F11 sail boats in 1964.  Its says the article was "by Alan Foster of Master Craft".

http://www.yachtingaustralia.com.au/?Page=16861&MenuID=About_F11@%5E039s/11720/0/?sp=10059-515140-flying11

Does that name ring a bell to anyone?

I've emailed Yachting Aust to ask if anyone there has further info.

Cheers,
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 24, 2016, 07:42:59 PM
OK, so I had some spare time today.  We had our first open-house yesterday and all my boat/stuff is offsite for a few weeks other than one of the twins. 

Firstly, Guy, you'll be pleased to hear, post my attempt to jump start off the internal wiring, that with the right plug and forward control, the starter works just fine.

The motor turns over nicely.
I have a crappy compression tester and on some plug holes I could not get a good seal, but I got between 118-125 PSI across the board.  Very promising.
All ignition/carby linkages and moving parts were quite 'sticky' with old dry grease and oil, but just to test function, WD40 has it all moving nicely.
Even the pull cord spring freed up with decent and full recoil of the rope.
I suspect, knowing the history of the motors, that they were properly stored (fogged?) and that may explain what seems like a slight dry/sticky/oily coating on everthing.

The first issue is she wont fire as I have no spark (tested on No.1).
The two coils look pretty crusty it it looks like the two resistors may be falling apart (resin? holding terminals to ceramic park broken away but terminals and internal wires still look like they might be connected).

First dumb question, All else being OK, I assume if either of these (coils/resistors) are caput that would explain no spark.

If so, is there a ready source for replacements or are they Merc-specific?

Cheers,
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: oldenrude on April 25, 2016, 07:46:49 AM
http://www.boatsonline.com.au/boats-for-sale/used/power-boats/mariner-cruiser/148756

Aaron, this looks similar.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on April 26, 2016, 11:01:34 AM
G'day AJ,
Mark S is way better with high tension wiring than I am. Perhaps he will chime in on this one? A basic question, when you were jumping her direct to the starter, did you have the ignition key in the "on" position? Test every plug lead for spark, not just one.

Have you turned over your other motor to see if that one has a spark? If it has, you have a perfectly good set of spares sitting right beside the motor with no spark.

MERCMAN.




Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on April 27, 2016, 09:46:55 PM
Ah... yes... I had already spotted that Mariner.  If it had have been an outboard and ripe for placement of my twins, I'de have maybe considered it.
If its in as good condition as it looks in the photos, I recon its a great price from a dealer.

Guy,
No, I have not tried the other 700 yet.  Its still sitting on the back of Capricous up in my dad's paddock (where she's be for a few years now).  All the boats and motors will be rejoining me once we move into the new place in July! Space at last!!!!
I have one of those little lighted spark plug testers coming in mail, so will do a bette test on all six leads once its here.
I never had the motor plugged in when I last tried to jump start it, as you'll recall, I never had a forward control with the right plug.  That probably explains it and just another novice mistake on my behalf ;-)

Cheers,
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on May 02, 2016, 01:23:17 PM
AJ,
I reckon it's fairly unlikely your motors were fogged prior storage. Using that Yankie product certainly wasn't common practice at all in Australia. In fact, WD40 was very scarce in Australia in those days as well.
Resourceful people, including my Dad made their own version WD40 by mixing Kerosene and 2 stroke oil and spraying that in and around an outboard with the aid of a hand pumped fly spray device. Of course, they all claimed it gave the same results as WD40 at a fraction of the price! Although, it does make black Mercs look very glossy and new.  You would have loved to see the huge display of pretty colours it made on the surface of the water around the stern, every time you launched your boat.

MERCMAN.


 


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 02, 2016, 03:16:09 PM
Definitely has a thin coating of dried oil on everything under the cowls.

Just did a spark test and... nope... no spark on any of the leads/plugs.

About to do some Googling... but an thoughts on what to test next?


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Mark S on May 06, 2016, 03:35:54 PM
Hi AJ,

Make sure you have voltage at the ignition coils+ when key on and cranking. Also the dual points in the distributor might need cleaning after sitting for that long.
I've had a quick look at a wiring diagram, looks like they use resistors in the ignition, so I would assume you should have about 9 volts at the coil with the key on.
If you have no voltage at the coil+, use a jumper wire (from solenoid live side) for the purpose of seeing if it starts, remember to disconnect it afterwards.

Mark S.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 06, 2016, 06:03:42 PM
HI Mark.

Layperson Q's:

1. To test the coils, where do I put the +/- of the meter?  + on the + side of coil, but do I put the - meter?
2. "jump from the solenoid +" but to where?  And then what, just ignition on at the key???

AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Mark S on May 07, 2016, 10:16:10 AM
Sorry Aaron, jumped the gun a bit.

It has a simple points ignition like an old car.

Start with the basics first. Turn the key on. Use volt test meter to check ignition coil primary voltage. Red meter lead on + terminal on coil (test one at a time). Black meter lead to earth. Should get a voltage reading of about 9 volts. With engine cranking should be about 12 volts. If there is voltage at the coils and none at the plugs, the points (2 sets) probably dirty or corroded on contacts. Remove distributor cap carefully and clean with fine emery paper. Retest for voltage at plug leads.

Try this first and see where you get.

Mark S.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 15, 2016, 09:02:13 AM
Thanks Mark,

Test done... I get 12.45V at both coils with ignition on.... re meter to rec coil, black meter to earth (coil mounting bracket screw).

Did not try cranking after after getting +12V when you suggested it'd be 9V.  Is getting +12V an issue in itself???

If not I guess that means its the leads or points, with points being the likely candidate (re my earlier note about this long-time stored motor having lots of dry oily buildup an all surfaces).

Will do a little reading up on how (leads are all screw-in on this era Merc from memory?) and have a go.

Cheers,
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 15, 2016, 11:09:50 AM
Well... first issue (and hopefully the reason for no spark and an easy fix)... the centre dist cap brush is snapped (see attached).

Hard to tell if I did it (all came apart with ease and nor forcing), or if it was already like this.  Inside the dist cap she's sparkly clean.

I cant see those bushes available on any of the main old Merc parts sites.  Do you think I'm up for sourcing a donor motor/distributor?

All that aside, can I just check... the points that I clean with emery paper (I have 1000 grit) are those two prongs and then the 6x tabs inside the dist cap?

Cheers,
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Mark S on May 16, 2016, 12:52:50 PM
Hi Aaron,

12.45 volts is good.
Distributor cap brush is still available as a current Mercury part. Part number 393-1293A1. If you have a problem obtaining from a Mercury dealer send me a PM.

All Mercury distributor models use the same brush, including all 4 & 6 cyl models until they finished in the 70s, so you should be able to obtain one somewhere secondhand.

Mark S.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on May 16, 2016, 09:22:39 PM
Thanks Mark.

Looks like I can get new (or NOS) out of the USA for about $30 landed, but will see what the local dealer can do.

I'm crossing al my fingers and toes, that is what the no spark issue was.

A question on that... who do you guys use locally for Merc parts?  I am assuming someone must be the main Aust distributor and who all the mechanics buy off???

AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: Mark S on May 17, 2016, 07:58:22 AM
You can only buy Mercury parts from Mercury dealers. I get my Mercury parts from a Mercury dealer. Sometimes it pays to check parts locally for availability and price, before importing. I can help you with pricing and availability. If you need more help send me a PM.

The broken carbon is probably your issue. Pays to start with the simple things first. Those old Yank ignitions were good quality for their day.

Mark S.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: MERCMAN on May 18, 2016, 11:11:58 AM
My good friend Guy Hanson may have the part/s which you require. A few years back, Guy purchased all of the remaining stock held by Golden Seal Marine. Guy owns and operates The Outboard Workshop at Currum Downs. See: http://theoutboardworkshop.com.au/

Tell him I sent ya!

MERCMAN.


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on August 25, 2016, 06:32:33 PM
Update...

I grabbed 15min  away from work and put the other motor (the one that has been siting on the back of Capricious) on the control and battery and she spins beautifully.
I squirted a little fuel with extra oil down the carbies first, and you could hear the cranking RMP lift very quickly over the first few cranks.
However, as per the other motor, no spark.
Possibly the same, easy to fix $20, issue in the distributor?

However, (hope you're all listening) I've decided I'm never going to do them any justice...

... With the Glastron's 1000SS giving me headaches, the Gastron itself with lots of issues (re floor rot and maybe transom), me missing out on fun on the water, the new (re old, circa 1975 ) house and garden I need to focus on renovating and new baby due in 5 weeks, I've decided I am going to flog the lot (Mercs, Glastron, parts, etc) and pool the funds to buy a better (I now know what to look for) 1970's toy. 

I'll put a post in the For Sale section once i work out how best to put them up for sale in a way that biasses you guys, makes it fair and so I get the best I can for them (i.e. for the next boat).

Stay tuned.
AJ


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: andrewallan on August 25, 2016, 07:01:09 PM
You're going to flog Capricious?? ...oh no.

What will you describe her as being?!


Title: Re: Pair of 1961 Merc 700 Short Shafts
Post by: AaronJ on August 25, 2016, 07:09:44 PM
Na, I'll keep Capricious.  She has about zero value to anyone, so no point selling her, and I'll just stick her in the yard for a rainy day.